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-   -   More food for thought.....DOMS (http://www.muscleandbrawn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1089)

AthleteCreator 10-29-2009 08:26 AM

More food for thought.....DOMS
 
The CNS thread is really good for most of us to just be thinking out loud. It really is a pseudo-science at this point in time. I train with a guy getting his PhD in Exercise Physiology and he focuses mainly on the CNS. That's where a lot of my info comes from (along with all my time under the bar). Even he (and his colleagues) admits that no one really "gets it", but we know that it most definitely affects our performance.

So, here is another subject that no one can really explain, yet everyone seems to have an opinion on it: DOMS.

I think most people (or at least it seems) agree that they're caused by tiny, intramuscular tears. What I am still trying to decide is:

Does DOMS mean growth?

Are DOMS required in order to make gains?

If you DON'T feel DOMS after a training session, was that training session even effective?

If you DON'T feel DOMS after a training session, is that the cue to switch up your routine in order to hit the targeted muscle group at a different angle?

Is there a point where you should stop getting DOMS altogether?


Right now, I'm at the point where I "think" you should feel DOMS after a training session. I'm not positive that DOMS = Growth (or strength gains). However, I do think that DOMS = you activated previously dormant fibers. Therefore, if you don't feel DOMS, you didn't hit new fibers, and the workout wasn't effective.

That's just my personal belief. I am open to hear other suggestions. Discuss...

RickB 10-29-2009 09:06 AM

Great topic! And these are just like you said, "my opinions" ;)

I do think DOMS is a great indication of whether or not you shredded the muscles good in the gym. I'm not sure it's required, but imo, it does let me know I did something. I actually seem to be addicted to the feeling.

One exception is that I rarely get DOMS in my biceps or triceps. I really have to throw something different at my routine to get any soreness there. Despite this, I think my arms are respectable.

BendtheBar 10-29-2009 09:30 AM

Most of my training sessions leave some DOMS. But certain muscles never get sore.

My quads, triceps and shoulders are my most impressive bodyparts. But they never get sore. My chest sucks, and always gets sore. My hammies always get sore. Abs too. Upper back...only from deadlifts. Lower back, never.

So, DOMS is not needed, but each bodypart is different and a trainee should learn which bodyparts should be getting sore from a decent workout.

If my chest didn't get sore, I would worry.

AthleteCreator 10-29-2009 11:07 AM

I get DOMS in whatever the major movement that session is targeting.

Bench = Chest
Squats = Hams, sometimes quads
Deads = entire back

I hardly do any direct bicep work so I guess I can say I don't get DOMS there, but I never really hit that area hard enough.

And then, I'm quite positive that the weak link in my bench is my chest. My delts and triceps seem to be stronger so unless I do A LOT of direct work after a bench session, they rarely get DOMS.

bwys61 10-29-2009 11:27 AM

Does DOMS mean growth?

No, it means damage to the muscle. Proper recovery and nutrition leads to growth as a result of the stimilus.

Are DOMS required in order to make gains?


No. Proper recovery and nutrition leads to growth as a result of the stimilus. It depends on your level of preparedness. Novices can progress without much soreness, or work for that matter.

However, the more advanced you get, the more positive correlation to DOMS and Growth

If you DON'T feel DOMS after a training session, was that training session even effective?

Yes. Just because there wasn't soreness, doesn't mean the muscle wasn't worked.

If you DON'T feel DOMS after a training session, is that the cue to switch up your routine in order to hit the targeted muscle group at a different angle?

Not necessarily, but it is good to switch up exercises to keep from accomodating.


Is there a point where you should stop getting DOMS altogether?

When you die

AthleteCreator 10-29-2009 11:33 AM

LOUD NOISES!!!


lol

bwys61 10-29-2009 11:56 AM

not really. I wasn't for sure how it was going to look. guess I need to make it smaller next time

Quote:

Originally Posted by AthleteCreator (Post 8548)
LOUD NOISES!!!


lol


BendtheBar 10-29-2009 04:17 PM

I used to get wicked DOMS on my triceps and legs. Now I can squat and press until I'm near death and the DOMS are minimal to zero. So it does appear that DOMS can "go away."

big valsalva 10-29-2009 09:30 PM

I experience DOMS after an extended layoff. The upper legs (especially the adductors) are particularly susceptible. After a couple of sessions though, the DOMS subsides and eventually goes away. All part of the acclimation/adaptation process, I guess. Now, just because I eventually quit experiencing DOMS, does that mean that my workouts are unproductive? I suppose the greatest indicator is the numbers. If the numbers keep progressing, then all is fine - DOMS or no DOMS.


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