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Old 07-09-2012, 12:24 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by BendtheBar View Post
Offended me? Not in the least. I am the one that posts most of the fail pics, so since the point was brought up I added my slant/opinion.

Furthermore, this isn't my forum. Withholding posts from other members because of some perceived disagreement between you and myself is the last thing I want to happen.

People want and need your help. If you have an issue with me, I hope you won't penalize everyone else. I feel like others have just been punished because I have an opinion.
OK, sorry. I thought you were pissed at me buy your post.
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Old 07-09-2012, 12:25 PM   #22
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Rich this is healthy discussion and debate. No one is getting offended here.

LtL
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Old 07-09-2012, 01:03 PM   #23
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People should stop treating the patriotism of their country like some cheap whore who can be rented out to any slickster with something to sell.
That's a great line.

I've seen a lot of that style of writing recently (not yours, the T-Nation guy). It's weird, like an old-fashioned sermon. The audience are villified and berated for their unworthiness. Their commitment is questioned. Their failure to achieve is not only a personal failure, but symptomatic of a modern malaise. Unfavourable comparison to the previous generation, who were all paragons of hardiness, is made.

I think this sort of writing plays well to a proportion of Americans (because they play on hard work being the cardinal virtue that trumps anything) and often goes down less well in Europe.

Personally, I don't like those type of writers, because they use inflammatory rhetorical tricks in place of actual argument and evidence.
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Old 07-09-2012, 01:10 PM   #24
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Funny things are funny.
Nothing to add other than, ^^^^Quote of the Day!

Wait, on second thought....


Crass generalizations are still just generalizations.
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Old 07-09-2012, 01:53 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by Fazc View Post
I didn't object to the message, people can train however the hell they want to train. Gym Rats can train as hard or as soft as they want, I honestly could not care less. They pay their fees so they can do what they like.

What I did object to was the writing style. That style of writing makes me want to jab a stick in my eyes. I can't believe anyone is actually taken in by such a horribly blatant attempt at trying to gain readers. It's Matt Furey but a hundred times worse. Appealing to 'real americans' from a type long ago... give me a ****ing break already. It's a blatant and transparent attempt to gain readers, the only difference here is that he's using something which people actually feel strongly about... their patriotism. I can guarantee you he doesn't give a flying **** about the average american and he's just using this to gain readers. That's why I objected and so should you.

If someone wanted to introduce an article on Overhead Pressing by getting me to feel patriotic about Britain I would be offended. Britain is far more than a cheap ploy to be used to gain readers for some shitty T-Nation article.

People should stop treating the patriotism of their country like some cheap whore who can be rented out to any slickster with something to sell.
Articulate and humourous at the same time.
I've read lots of articles like this in the last few years that essentially say if you can't lift 'x' amount or do 'y' exercise, you're a pussy. Not all of us can squat 600+ but anyone who makes an effort to improve their health and fitness should be applauded. The patriotism thing IS very popular with US writers as they assume such rhetoric will appeal to American males. I don't know many of the above so I can't say if they are mistaken or not.

I also noted that this guy also moans about 'sissy' jobs. So now you have to lift 'x' amount, do 'y' lift and work at 'z' job The thing about the internet is that everyone likes to air their opinion and in many cases, if everyone isn't doing with the writer is, they are wrong.
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Old 07-09-2012, 02:01 PM   #26
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Setting unrealistic strength standards for guys is a dangerous thing. Not everybody is meant to squat 600 lbs or bench 500 lbs raw and natural. When guys don't measure up to that standard they often times get hurt from pushing it too hard or resort to drugs to make up for their percieved short-comings.
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Old 07-09-2012, 02:07 PM   #27
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Setting unrealistic strength standards for guys is a dangerous thing. Not everybody is meant to squat 600 lbs or bench 500 lbs raw and natural. When guys don't measure up to that standard they often times get hurt from pushing it too hard or resort to drugs to make up for their percieved short-comings.
Very true. We can just try and get as far as we can. No sense in comparing ourselves to perceived standards set by others.
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Old 07-09-2012, 03:55 PM   #28
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This is a land of wide open spaces. We were once very self reliant, because we had to be. This is a huge country, with a solid percentage of people living in rural areas. Hard work was beaten like a drum because it was necessary for survival.

Our grandfathers were paragons of hardiness. They had a greater number of skillsets. My father-in-law can build houses, fix/maintain any machine, do electrical work, plumbing work, farm, etc. I can do very few of these. What I can do, I had to learn on my own.

There has been a change in my country. I can see what it bothers some individuals. Perhaps it is misguided; we are moving into a new era.

My only point is that the changes we Americans see aren't simply a call to patriotism. Men like myself, and perhaps the writer of this article, see the differences between our grandfathers and the peers of our sons. Whether our fear of this change is right or wrong, there has been a change in our culture, and it's something we discuss often.

There is a true concern we are weakening. Whether we need to be concerned is another story, but at any rate we are in a cultural transition.

Men like my father-in-law are concerned, and it's not simply patriotism. They view things through the lens of their lives, and still to a degree think all modern men should have the same myriad of skillsets.

Time has made the average American man less self-reliant. But it's still a huge country where many men must be more self-reliant than some of us can imagine. I live in a farming community where many of my peers were taught the same skills. They require these skills to feed their families and keep farms running.

One day they drywall, the next fix a barn. One day they grease the combine, the next fix an outlet in the barn.

Some of them do see a healthy portion of the young as self-serving wimps. I am not saying it's right or wrong, but I am saying that the more self-reliant you are, the more you fear facing obstacles you don't have the skills to overcome. Older men tend to have a natural, healthy fear for the younger generation. It's simply part of the transition taking place.

I am surrounded by rural communities, and men like this. There are far more self-reliant men roaming our lands than many can imagine.
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Old 07-09-2012, 04:05 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by BendtheBar View Post
This is a land of wide open spaces. We were once very self reliant, because we had to be. This is a huge country, with a solid percentage of people living in rural areas. Hard work was beaten like a drum because it was necessary for survival.

Our grandfathers were paragons of hardiness. They had a greater number of skillsets. My father-in-law can build houses, fix/maintain any machine, do electrical work, plumbing work, farm, etc. I can do very few of these. What I can do, I had to learn on my own.

There has been a change in my country. I can see what it bothers some individuals. Perhaps it is misguided; we are moving into a new era.

My only point is that the changes we Americans see aren't simply a call to patriotism. Men like myself, and perhaps the writer of this article, see the differences between our grandfathers and the peers of our sons. Whether our fear of this change is right or wrong, there has been a change in our culture, and it's something we discuss often.

There is a true concern we are weakening. Whether we need to be concerned is another story, but at any rate we are in a cultural transition.

Men like my father-in-law are concerned, and it's not simply patriotism. They view things through the lens of their lives, and still to a degree think all modern men should have the same myriad of skillsets.

Time has made the average American man less self-reliant. But it's still a huge country where many men must be more self-reliant than some of us can imagine. I live in a farming community where many of my peers were taught the same skills. They require these skills to feed their families and keep farms running.

One day they drywall, the next fix a barn. One day they grease the combine, the next fix an outlet in the barn.

Some of them do see a healthy portion of the young as self-serving wimps. I am not saying it's right or wrong, but I am saying that the more self-reliant you are, the more you fear facing obstacles you don't have the skills to overcome. Older men tend to have a natural, healthy fear for the younger generation. It's simply part of the transition taking place.

I am surrounded by rural communities, and men like this. There are far more self-reliant men roaming our lands than many can imagine.
I agree with this post.
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Old 07-09-2012, 04:15 PM   #30
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I'm not denying any of that Steve, I say the author doesn't care and is merely using this to gain YOUR sympathy by appealing to an issue which is close to your heart so he can USE that to make his point about shoulder presses. These things which you obviously care about shouldn't be flaunted by every writer looking to gain sympathy for his work, it should mean more than that.

Frankly, it DOES mean more than that. By sympathising with this huckster you've playing into the devaluation of YOUR core values.

Last edited by Fazc; 07-09-2012 at 04:17 PM.
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