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-   -   You Can't Out Diet Lousy Training (http://www.muscleandbrawn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=9779)

bruteforce 04-26-2012 12:03 PM

You Can't Out Diet Lousy Training
 
I may turn this into a full blown article, but mostly I'm sick of the diet freaks who say diet is 90%. Yeah, diet is all important if your training is set, but if your routine sucks, or you aren't training, you aren't going to get anywhere. Dieting down is an art and a science, but if your training is wrong, it won't go well. Bulks end up in making people fat because their training sucks. or because they eat 3x what their body needs (my specialty), but here's my basic premise:

Unless you are dieting for a BB competition, training is what matters most. Don't eat like an idiot, train harder than the day before, and good things happen.

IronManlet 04-26-2012 12:28 PM

Indeed. Most people need to focus on working harder with their training, I think.

BendtheBar 04-26-2012 12:35 PM

Only speaking for myself, and by no means trying to step on anyone's toes, but training is 95% for me. As long as I am not undereating, I have never personally found any reason to worry about micromanaging my diet. I make sure it consists of a fair share of sensible, nutrient dense foods and a quality amount of protein, but beyond that I don't obsess over details.

It certainly does help to be in tune with the scale, and to know the calorie and macronutrient levels of most foods. This has helped make my life easier. It makes cutting easier for me. Even when I need to maintain or cut I don't count calories. I know about what I am eating, but I rarely count beyond a ballpark level.

Bodybuilders are unique creatures and need to micromanage during cutting, so I am certainly not minimizing that practice in any way. It is a requirement to be successful in that sport.

I have out-trained a bad diet and poor sleep habits many, many times.

It is interesting to note that on any given muscle building forum, 90% of the trainees are micromanaging their food and macro intake, yet they gravitate towards bloated, inefficient workouts and seem to have a minimal regard for using the most effective exercises, nor do they understand what progression of weight is.

I do not blame them. They are trying the best they can with the info they are given. But it is much easier to eat with structure than it is to give it hell in the gym. Just my opinion. Most people think they are training hard, but their training lacks focus and is more working out than it is training for a specific goal.

Chillen 04-26-2012 01:25 PM

Diet and training are forever the married couple. How the percentage of importance between them plays out--can depend. Sometimes, it simply isn't trying to do better as compared to the last workout--as some depletion workout setups are designed. In this case scenario, the marriage is 50/50. The macros have to be setup properly, and the workout--designed to burn a higher proportionate of carbohydrates; which usually means higher rep ranges, which in most cases are not progressive in nature (though can be) if spaced more than two days or so--in the process setup.

Off Road 04-26-2012 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bruteforce (Post 236226)
Don't eat like an idiot, train harder than the day before, and good things happen.

Amen...Class dismissed.

SeventySeven 04-26-2012 04:35 PM

50/50
that is all

5kgLifter 04-26-2012 06:30 PM

I thought you wrote "You can't out train a lousy diet" but you put "You Can't Out Diet Lousy Training"; scrap my answer :D

Fazc 04-26-2012 06:48 PM

Obviously they both play a part but I think the answer's given will depends on people's perspectives and goals at the time.

If you've been dieting like hell for a year, are lean, fit and all that or at least want to be lean and fit then I'm sure your answer will be skewed somewhat to the diet side. For the larger trainee or someone lifting casually it's not too much of a bother to just eat as they please with an emphasis on protein and be big and strong in the gym. That particular trainee may never have felt the pressure or need to diet down to fit into a weight class, so they really can't empathise here.

But let's not kid ourselves, for competition or being the best in a chosen physical endeavour both diet and training are integral. We can't just pay lip service to diet in that equation either.

bruteforce 04-26-2012 07:09 PM

Having lost 150ish pounds by diet alone, I can say without reservation that diet plays a massive role in body composition. I probably should have fleshed this out a bit more to avoid ruffling feathers, but my basic premise is that for the average trainee, training right may well be the key to the city. A crappy diet is a bad idea, but there's no way in hell to get big and muscular without hitting the weights hard.

That's actually why the original post is littered with disclaimers and caveats. My initial thought was "Go deadlift until your heart explodes and get huge." Clearly this is hyperbole, and wouldn't help anyone, even if I just wanted to go for shock value, which is rarely my intention. The idea, which I still may turn into something more, is intended for people who aren't anywhere near the level that most of the MAB members are. Lets face it, most of you are stronger, fitter, and more experienced than I am.

What I do know is that by dieting down and not lifting, I ended up fat and weak. Sure, I lost 150 pounds, but no abs, no visible muscle, and 12 inch biceps. On a 6'5" frame. I didn't change a thing in my diet, picked up some dumbbells, worked hard, and added 2 inches to my arms in a couple months.

Back to the diet. I stick with my statement that bulks fail for 2 main reasons. Lack of effort or the ability to eat inhuman amounts of food and still not be satisfied. My self control around pizza aside, a fair bit of it could be fixed by working harder in the gym, on the farm, or loading trucks, or construction work, or something. Its rare to see soft fat people who work their ass off every day in manual labor. They may be fat, but they are strong looking as well. At that point, get the diet in better check and good things happen.

Diet and exercise are intertwined, no matter how much I would like it to be otherwise. But far too many young men worry about every calorie they eat and don't pay attention to their routine. Go eat something, go squat, see what happens.

Fazc 04-26-2012 07:16 PM

Good post(s) Brute.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bruteforce (Post 236394)
Diet and exercise are intertwined, no matter how much I would like it to be otherwise. But far too many young men worry about every calorie they eat and don't pay attention to their routine. Go eat something, go squat, see what happens.

I'm definitely not disagreeing with you, there's a whole lot of truth in yours and every post in this thread actually. My post was just a commentary on the answers; in that a lot of it will depend on your own individual goals, history and situation. Like anything in life your views on stuff will come from your own experiences and situations.

For me, diet has to play a big part. It's tied in to what I do, for my own particular goals it has to be. Later on, as my goals change I imagine it won't be to the same extent. On that note my training is very important now, but I've eased up on that a lot. There was a time when my training was much more important to me than it is now. So priorities will vary.

EDIT -

Having thought about it a little more, perhaps a topic for an article could be how actions do not match with goals. For example an over emphasis on routines, isolation exercises, obsessing over sets/reps, rep cadence etc etc can be counter productive for a young trainee who needs to gain weight. In that case their actions are that of perhaps a pro-bodybuilder looking to get into shape, their goals are of a young trainee who needs to gain bulk. That contradiction is what will mess them up.


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