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Old 04-18-2012, 05:00 PM   #11
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It's complicated, to say the least, not that it should be just that it is.

The majority of dieticians, health workers etc, will say that saturated fat is bad for us, which it is to a degree, however, we also need saturated fat for the integrity of the heart cells (I think that's what it was, or the arerial cells of the heart or some such thing, but heart related anyway; I read it a long time ago and don't have a link, sorry) which oddly, polyunsaturated fats make soft as opposed to ehlping with the mentioned integrity, so in a sense, too many polyunsaturated fats in the diet are not a good thing either.

One or two links suggest, that the majority of fats should be monounsaturated with polunsaturated being next in terms of quantity and saturated fats making up around 5% of the entire fat intake; that kind of makes sense, considering nuts and such will be predominantly monounsaturated.

Some individuals suggest that where low carb high fat diets are concerned that monounsaturated fats don't cause an issue but saturated fats even with the low carb diet can lead to insulin issues; don't ask me why, I have no idea...probably need to do more research on that one as do they, more than likely.

It does seem to make sense though to have a balance and not focus on one particular source of fat (mono, poly, sat) which also fits with a balanced diet anyway; saturated fats play their role as much as other fats and unfortunately the dieticians prefer to steer people completely away from them and causing an imbalance in the ratios that we would once have eaten which is not the key to good health.
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Old 04-19-2012, 01:42 AM   #12
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A meta-analysis of prospective epidemiologic studies showed that there is no significant evidence for concluding that dietary saturated fat is associated with an increased risk of CHD or CVD. More data are needed to elucidate whether CVD risks are likely to be influenced by the specific nutrients used to replace saturated fat.

Meta-analysis of prospective cohort studies evaluating the association of saturated fat with cardiovascular disease

So who is right?


I was taught while in school that our meals should consist of mainly grains. Remember the food pyramid. Fast forward 30 years a boom, I am fat and diabetic. I guess that's what I get for following the great government education I received..

Now my VA dietitian says oh no now we have my plate. Its all figured out for you.

Well color me skeptical.
I understand your frustration. I'll read that study and get back to you later.
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Old 04-19-2012, 11:46 AM   #13
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Quote:
So who is right?


I was taught while in school that our meals should consist of mainly grains. Remember the food pyramid. Fast forward 30 years a boom, I am fat and diabetic. I guess that's what I get for following the great government education I received..

Now my VA dietitian says oh no now we have my plate. Its all figured out for you.

Well color me skeptical.
OK, let me pick up a few points. Bit of a long post, so bear with me.

1) If I understand you right, you followed traditional food pyramid guidelines and ended up - in your own words - fat and diabetic. But this doesn't mean that the advice was wrong. Your fat levels and chance of diabetes are going to be determined by a whole bunch of factors, including your overall energy balance and your genetic predispositions. Nobody said the traditional food pyramid was a guarantee. There is also the possibility that without those guidelines, you could be in an even worse state.

2) I notice the comment about 'government education.' Just as an aside, I think the very biggest mistake anyone can make when researching diet-related issues is to go down the 'the government wants you to think this, the FDA told us that' line.

Lots of critics of the medical establishment use this, for two reasons (a) it really seels their idea well (b) it covers up a lack of actual evidence for their ideas.

The problem with this reasoning is that it totally misses the international nature of research. The US government and the FDA, starngely enough, do not control an international network of scientists.

3) Onto your meta-analysis study. This is very interesting, because here we've got a powerful looking bit of research. I googled one author, Robert Krauss, and he's the real deal in this area. He's not a journalist who writes about science (like Sally Fallon). And it's a peer-reviewed, highly regarded journal.

I said before that science proceeds not by the results of one research study, but by taking the results of lots. So now we have two reviews, one concluding 'no connection and one concluding 'connection'. I was about to start looking at the paper in detail to see if I could explain the discrepancies, when I came across this. It's a symposium of 17 top researchers, including Robert Krauss. So this allows us to see a 'review of reviews'. As the title suggests, where does the evidence stand, as of 2010?

If you have time, and some patience, it's well worth wading through their conclusions in the link provided. The bottom line is that when all the available current evidence is taken into account, overall it still points to the benefits of lowering saturated fats, and to a so-called mediterrenean diet as being the healthiest:

Low on processed food
Lots of fresh veggies
Not much saturated fat
Relatively small amounts of red meat.

I guess that nine times out of ten, people believe whatever suits them best. Any critics that say you can eat bacon whenever you want are always going play well .
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Old 04-19-2012, 04:20 PM   #14
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Tannhauser, thank you for taking the time to share your experience and research with me.

As with most things, I believe that the answer will most likely be found around the middle.

Fortunately, The VA loves to test my blood. I think I'll become my own human Guinea pig.
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Old 04-19-2012, 04:30 PM   #15
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Tannhauser, thank you for taking the time to share your experience and research with me.

As with most things, I believe that the answer will most likely be found around the middle.

Fortunately, The VA loves to test my blood. I think I'll become my own human Guinea pig.
No problem chap, good luck with it.

I think unfortunately the genetic lottery has a huge amount to do with our response to diet. Some people can smoke, drink and eat lard all day long with impunity. Others do everything right and end up with life-threatening diseases.
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Old 04-19-2012, 04:45 PM   #16
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Saturated fat is my friend, carbs are my enemy. I don't know how many people's bodies act the way mine does, but when I switched away from eating carbs and over to eating meat and fibrous veggies my triglycerides dropped 1400ish points, total cholesterol several hundred, and my blood sugar came down from the high 300s to the mid 80s
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Old 06-30-2012, 01:27 PM   #17
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My results from switching to high fat, low carb. Though not as strict as I would like (think pounds of butter a month, three cheese burgers a week)Yep lots of sat fat. Carbs at maybe 100 g a day.

March BS 240 to 320, Triglycerides 428, a1c 7.4

June BS 100 to 115, Triglycerides 72, a1c 5.7

Body weight from 276 to 259.
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Old 06-30-2012, 02:34 PM   #18
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That's terrific!

Just curious - have you increased your activity levels or exercise from March to June? Or changed any medications? I wonder whether the changes are due to increasing dietary fat, increasing protein, dropping carbs, dropping total calories, dropping bodyfat etc.
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Old 06-30-2012, 04:25 PM   #19
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That's terrific!

Just curious - have you increased your activity levels or exercise from March to June? Or changed any medications? I wonder whether the changes are due to increasing dietary fat, increasing protein, dropping carbs, dropping total calories, dropping bodyfat etc.
May begins my busy season (landscape construction), total cals would be about the same. Protein has increased in place of carbs. Medications are the same.

I believe that the reduction in carbs, increased activity and the loss of body fat are the main reasons for this improvement.

I cannot speak too dietary fat being a real benefit, but it sure tastes good. I'll take a big juicy hunk of beef over a loaf of white bread anytime!
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Old 06-30-2012, 04:27 PM   #20
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I'll take a big juicy hunk of beef over a loaf of white bread anytime!
I'll drink to that.
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