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Old 02-10-2014, 11:17 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by BendtheBar View Post
Most folks start out assuming a person accomplished things via their straight natural abilities, and when they find out, some innocence is lost. People do have some inherent goodness, and want to see a fair competition.
I have to agree with this point; I was informed once that most if not all athletes are taking something, I'm no longer as interested in watching sporting events as I once was.

I can't comment on the actual issue in this thread, because I don't know enough about the substances being discussed; however, I have seen what medicinal steroids (which I realise are slightly different in make-up), at small doses, have done to a person's health...and if they're medicinal and for the good, I dread to think what other stuff can do.
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Old 02-10-2014, 12:51 PM   #12
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I also think many lifters remain na´ve because they know that they've never really tried to maximize their training, and have no plan to. They assume that if someone really focusses in and their diet and training is perfect all the time, that would make a huge difference. While it actually will make a difference, it's not nearly as big a difference as steroids make.

Don't underestimate genetics as well. I've met people who accidentally had incredible bodies with basically no extra effort at all. Seeing people like that gives us the same sort of unrealistic expectations that our exposure to steroid users does.
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Old 02-10-2014, 01:03 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by gregger View Post
I'd like to jump in on this...
I'm a 53yr old natty, I've been told by a few guys that without gear I'm just wasting my time... My hard work for such little gain is worthless.

Would I like to? Absolutely...
But I'm afraid that my underlying health issues would only lead to trouble... Admittedly this is a risk I'm not willing to take.

I couldn't care less what others do, just don't tell me I'm somehow inferior because my size and strength is not what it could be...

Any thoughts here? Am I just spinning my wheels?
MY PERSONAL OPINION. (based on my experience and common sense).

An intelligently applied and dosed TRT regimen is a true game changer for the older person (40+) looking to get stronger, improve performance and/or body comp. I have been "on" for a few years...low dose test with the occasional use of another compound also at lowish doses. I have notices zero negative effects and am very happy with my choice to use. I believe that intelligent doses are the key difference...my philosophy is to use the minimum to get the effect I desire.

To consider drug use cheating is as absurd as considering training natural a waste of time...both are silly things to say or believe.
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Old 02-10-2014, 01:25 PM   #14
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...for the older person (40+)
Who you callin' old? LOL
Totally agree with you.
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Old 02-10-2014, 01:37 PM   #15
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wait are we talking about creatine? or protein?
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Old 02-10-2014, 01:59 PM   #16
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It doesnt really affect my training. I have no problem with people who use them, so long as they are safe about it. I do wish the general population was better informed about the subject. With all the smear campaigns politicians have put out, I doubt it would change opinion that much though.

On a side note, I wish the military would make it optional for us to get a prescription for them with a few restrictions. If you work with a weapon at all, have the possibility of seeing combat at all, or do any manual labor as part of your job, then you should have the option of going on a high TRT dose. Noners and desk jockeys need not apply. Starting next year, I want to get blood work done yearly for any sign of low T or any imbalances.

Not steroid related but in the PED category, I am excited to see the research on the newest group of myostatin inhibitors. They look quite promising from initial tests. Time will tell.
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Old 02-10-2014, 02:57 PM   #17
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Still want to become a world record holder? Still want to become Mr. Olympia? What would you be willing to do?
The numbers I heard this weekend would make most guys cry. The amount of money spent by those guys is unreal. Lets be honest, there is a reason why those guys are the top .01%!

Steroids becomes cheating to me, when you compete in a federation that is "drug tested".
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Old 02-10-2014, 03:06 PM   #18
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Why would anyone consider their training "useless" if they were on steroids? Steroids do not make you stronger without training. I broke numerous federation world records and the all time over 50 bench record clean. Since then I've been put on TRT dose of test cyp by my doctor, at HIS suggestion, not mine. Low dose TRT is not expensive and I believe that it's not making me stronger, but I'm not losing muscle mass as fast being an old fart(58).

As for the cheating part, I have lifted in a tested federation while on TRT. Prior to lifting, I advised the Fed president, so I wasn't hiding anything. I know several older guys who are on TRT that don't tell him. They are all over 50 and only taking TRT doses. Most of them don't lift enough to get tested anyway. Every meet I lift at, I get tested even after getting 2nd place once. I still have to pass the test. All of the other feds I lift in are non tested.
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Old 02-10-2014, 04:29 PM   #19
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I took the juice once. Lost all my gains, and what little knowledge of training I had. Totally worthless.

As far as powerlifting goes, follow the rules of the fed you lift in. Competing in a tested fed and using without a prescription and without disclosure is unethical.

As far as not being able to learn anything from a "'roid addict", that is ludicrous. Most of the great lifters use or have used, and also have a vast amount of experience and training knowledge. Lifting is a skill, not just a measure of strength.
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Old 02-10-2014, 04:41 PM   #20
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I took the juice once. Lost all my gains, and what little knowledge of training I had. Totally worthless.
The test that I take is certainly not totally worthless. Kind of a "fountain of youth", if you know what I mean. The purpose for me isn't lifting related.

I've been totally honest and open about my TRT use in lifting. The tested fed that I lifted in does not have a non-tested side. I will not name it, at the request of the fed president. However, even will disclosure, I feel guilty about it. Even though I pass the test, it just doesn't sit good with me. Even though some of my competition is doing the same thing. I probably will not lift there anymore. If they had a therapeutic use exemption, I would, but they don't.
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