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Old 06-26-2013, 10:17 PM   #11
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Try Alaska. It's free beyond anything you can imagine. Homestead.

Very good suggestion. Thank you. Funny enough, I was born on the island of Kodiak. We lived there until I was about 5 years old, then moved outside of Anchorage to a town called Eagle River. Lived there a couple years and later moved another 20 miles or so to Chugiak, where I finished elementary school. Shortly after, my father retired from teaching school and we bailed.

I've definitely considered going back but I don't think I could bare the cold. Even though I only lived there as a young boy I do have fond memories and do plan on going back at least for a visit. Strangely enough, as unpopulated as Alaska is you'd think It would be very easy to find solitude but you have to live very very remote for that.

If you were to move to the small town of Eagle River with a population of about 20,000 (now) you'd find it hard to isolate. It's weird, I guess since it's already kinda strange for someone to move there, when you do arrive everyone knows it! Whether you try be secretive or not. It would have to be an extremely out in the boonies part of the state in order for people not to track you down and ask why the hell you're there
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Old 06-26-2013, 10:22 PM   #12
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Why not just become more self-reliant and homestead? There are so many states in the US where this is possible. So much land.

It doesn't matter where you do if you don't become more self-reliant. I don't mean for that to sound like a lecture. I'd just rather homestead in a familiar location.
This is a very good point. No lecturing taken. I guess my main problem is with the government and the way thing look to me in the future. I strongly believe that this will not be a good place to be, and we might experience some very horrific things, in the U.S. over our time. I'd rather get out while the gettins good.
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Old 06-27-2013, 03:57 AM   #13
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Ive spent quite a bit of time working in South America. Although the US is seen as the standard bearer for capitalism, not all the consequences of this are fully understood. So its clear that capitalism concentrates wealth and this needs to be redistributed. In South America, the capitalism may not be as strong as in the US, but the redistribution of wealth is even worse! In Brazil (I was there for 4 years), there are such gulfs between the classes that rich people use helicopters to get around while favelas are off limits to even the police. Argentina the same, massive gated communities with armed guards to keep the fences manned.
What I observed working in these countries is that you need connections and a good salary to live well, but if you have that you live like a king.

Ive also spent time in Mexico and the Dominican Rep (around 9 months each), and while they're all nice places to spend time, I dont think you will escape the rat race in any of them. On the contrary, the pressure to keep up is even higher, since the consequences of not doing so are tragic.
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Old 06-27-2013, 09:21 AM   #14
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Ive spent quite a bit of time working in South America. Although the US is seen as the standard bearer for capitalism, not all the consequences of this are fully understood. So its clear that capitalism concentrates wealth and this needs to be redistributed. In South America, the capitalism may not be as strong as in the US, but the redistribution of wealth is even worse! In Brazil (I was there for 4 years), there are such gulfs between the classes that rich people use helicopters to get around while favelas are off limits to even the police. Argentina the same, massive gated communities with armed guards to keep the fences manned.
What I observed working in these countries is that you need connections and a good salary to live well, but if you have that you live like a king.

Ive also spent time in Mexico and the Dominican Rep (around 9 months each), and while they're all nice places to spend time, I dont think you will escape the rat race in any of them. On the contrary, the pressure to keep up is even higher, since the consequences of not doing so are tragic.

I may have mislead somewhat in the original post. The structure of government is of not much concern to me, especially in a place that requires little money to live. Moscow is expensive but not that I'm moving to Russia anytime soon, for example, and living under that reign. The enemies that the U.S. government are gaining is bothersome; threat from N. Korea, Russia, and Taliban and most certainly others we, as citizens are unaware of. The U.S. seems to have an overall greater target on it's back. The meddling in other country's affairs and lack of overall integrity is disgusting. I can not stand for it and IMO it's going to bring an even nastier outcome, the economy aside.

Working in South America, or Mexico. I've had thoughts of opening a scuba shop, buying a boat and having tours, or even something as simple as a margarita stand on the beach in a tourist town living remotely outside of it commuting as needed. Fishing is an option as well. In my mind these are very doable.

Thank you so much for sharing. Would you mind elaborating on the consequences of "not doing it"?
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Old 06-27-2013, 11:17 AM   #15
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I may have mislead somewhat in the original post. The structure of government is of not much concern to me, especially in a place that requires little money to live. Moscow is expensive but not that I'm moving to Russia anytime soon, for example, and living under that reign. The enemies that the U.S. government are gaining is bothersome; threat from N. Korea, Russia, and Taliban and most certainly others we, as citizens are unaware of. The U.S. seems to have an overall greater target on it's back. The meddling in other country's affairs and lack of overall integrity is disgusting. I can not stand for it and IMO it's going to bring an even nastier outcome, the economy aside.

Working in South America, or Mexico. I've had thoughts of opening a scuba shop, buying a boat and having tours, or even something as simple as a margarita stand on the beach in a tourist town living remotely outside of it commuting as needed. Fishing is an option as well. In my mind these are very doable.

Thank you so much for sharing. Would you mind elaborating on the consequences of "not doing it"?
Hey, I like sharing! I know little about lifting, so it's nice to be able to help when a topic comes along that I might have some experience on.

Regarding the consequences of not keeping up...

a developing country with such a gulf in classes leads to a gulf in quality and also a gulf in prices. When you're on holiday you don't notice, because you consume only the very basic commodities like food etc. But look at car prices, private education fees, private health insurance etc, and you might be surprised. I live in Turkey and I paid around 80,000 dollars for a land rover freelander (called FL2 in the US I think). It should be around 30000 but there's a 130% tax before putting 18% more tax for value added. I pay around 15000 a year for schools etc... South America is similar since the classes are similar. And for middle class people to have a quality of life they're used to at home, you have to work you're ass off. Govt schools, state healthcare etc. are not an option for me with 2 small girls to protect and raise. If I lost my job, the company would be obliged to pay me around 300 dollars in total. There are no safety nets, you have to create your own. Interest rates generally run a lot higher than in the US, inflation is a constant threat and crises seem to happen more often. In Argentina, the peso was tied to the dollar in the 90s and caused a meltdown in the economy when they couldn't service debt. In brazil one year it didn't rain, so the hydroelectric plants were low on water and there used to be rolling blackouts etc. not very stable places to build a business.

I don't know you're family status, age etc. but to retire and live relatively simple it's probably possible.
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Old 06-27-2013, 12:36 PM   #16
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Hey, I like sharing! I know little about lifting, so it's nice to be able to help when a topic comes along that I might have some experience on.

Regarding the consequences of not keeping up...

a developing country with such a gulf in classes leads to a gulf in quality and also a gulf in prices. When you're on holiday you don't notice, because you consume only the very basic commodities like food etc. But look at car prices, private education fees, private health insurance etc, and you might be surprised. I live in Turkey and I paid around 80,000 dollars for a land rover freelander (called FL2 in the US I think). It should be around 30000 but there's a 130% tax before putting 18% more tax for value added. I pay around 15000 a year for schools etc... South America is similar since the classes are similar. And for middle class people to have a quality of life they're used to at home, you have to work you're ass off. Govt schools, state healthcare etc. are not an option for me with 2 small girls to protect and raise. If I lost my job, the company would be obliged to pay me around 300 dollars in total. There are no safety nets, you have to create your own. Interest rates generally run a lot higher than in the US, inflation is a constant threat and crises seem to happen more often. In Argentina, the peso was tied to the dollar in the 90s and caused a meltdown in the economy when they couldn't service debt. In brazil one year it didn't rain, so the hydroelectric plants were low on water and there used to be rolling blackouts etc. not very stable places to build a business.
@
I don't know you're family status, age etc. but to retire and live relatively simple it's probably possible.
Thank you, I'll get back to this when free from work
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Old 06-27-2013, 03:10 PM   #17
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Ive spent quite a bit of time working in South America. Although the US is seen as the standard bearer for capitalism, not all the consequences of this are fully understood. So its clear that capitalism concentrates wealth and this needs to be redistributed. In South America, the capitalism may not be as strong as in the US, but the redistribution of wealth is even worse! In Brazil (I was there for 4 years), there are such gulfs between the classes that rich people use helicopters to get around while favelas are off limits to even the police. Argentina the same, massive gated communities with armed guards to keep the fences manned.
What I observed working in these countries is that you need connections and a good salary to live well, but if you have that you live like a king.

Ive also spent time in Mexico and the Dominican Rep (around 9 months each), and while they're all nice places to spend time, I dont think you will escape the rat race in any of them. On the contrary, the pressure to keep up is even higher, since the consequences of not doing so are tragic.
Good post. Wealth inequality and social mobility are bad in the US and UK...but that's comparing them to other western countries like - say - Finland or Spain (despite the economic woes). But in other countries outside the north/west, the inequalities are even greater.

BTTT...

BTB's ideas of homesteading sound interesting (even though I only have a vague idea of what that entails). Perhaps the USA is big enough and wild enough that you can effectively live outside of the mainstream and interact with those aspects that you don't like as little as possible?

While I agree with some of your concerns about possible blowback from US foreign policy, you're still living in the country with a military budget that dwarfs every other country on earth. So from that point of view you're well protected. And whatever the abuses the US government perpetrates on its own citizens, these pale into insignificance compared to those in the recent past of many central american or south american countries.
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Old 06-27-2013, 03:23 PM   #18
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I don't have much to offer as I haven't traveled much, however I do enjoy this conversation.

I've been thinking a lot lately about going off grid, or at least more remote. To have more freedom as to how I live my life, to be able to choose who I'm around, for the most part. Obviously a huge issue is money.
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Old 06-27-2013, 03:26 PM   #19
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Good post. Wealth inequality and social mobility are bad in the US and UK...but that's comparing them to other western countries like - say - Finland or Spain (despite the economic woes). But in other countries outside the north/west, the inequalities are even greater.

BTTT...

BTB's ideas of homesteading sound interesting (even though I only have a vague idea of what that entails). Perhaps the USA is big enough and wild enough that you can effectively live outside of the mainstream and interact with those aspects that you don't like as little as possible?

While I agree with some of your concerns about possible blowback from US foreign policy, you're still living in the country with a military budget that dwarfs every other country on earth. So from that point of view you're well protected. And whatever the abuses the US government perpetrates on its own citizens, these pale into insignificance tmcompared to those in the recent past of many central american or south american countries.
Aye Professor you're obviously very versed in history, too. Terrorism is impossible to completely defend against, even if we nuke the bastages and wipe their homeland clean off the map. They are already on our soil. Who's to think once we rebound there won't be another 9/11 and bring us back to square one. And yes I'm fully aware the main reason for our current economic state iswas from the housing crash. Chemicals may be in route as well.

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Old 06-27-2013, 03:52 PM   #20
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[QUOTE=GT55;379628]Hey, I like sharing! I know little about lifting, so it's nice to be able to help when a topic comes along that I might have some experience on.

Regarding the consequences of not keeping up...

a developing country with such a gulf in classes leads to a gulf in quality and also a gulf in prices. When you're on holiday you don't notice, because you consume only the very basic commodities like food etc. But look at car prices, private education fees, private health insurance etc, and you might be surprised. I live in Turkey and I paid around 80,000 dollars for a land rover freelander (called FL2 in the US I think). It should be around 30000 but there's a 130% tax before putting 18% more tax for value added. I pay around 15000 a year for schools etc... South America is similar since the classes are similar. And for middle class people to have a quality of life they're used to at home, you have to work you're ass off. Govt schools, state healthcare etc. are not an option for me with 2 small girls to protect and raise. If I lost my job, the company would be obliged to pay me around 300 dollars in total. There are no safety nets, you have to create your own. Interest rates generally run a lot higher than in the US, inflation is a constant threat and crises seem to happen more often. In Argentina, the peso was tied to the dollar in the 90s and caused a meltdown in the economy when they couldn't service debt. In brazil one year it didn't rain, so the hydroelectric plants were low on water and there used to be rolling blackouts etc. not very stable places to build a business.

Fiance and myself don't see the likelihood of much development at least in the near future for many South American countries, like Uruguay, at least in our lifetimes. We simply only desire enough coin to shelter and feed ourselves, our friends and of course toasting margaritas over a lovely conversation while chowing down on freshly caught bass:-)

I will have to look into insurance, on the other hand.
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