Muscle and Brawn Forums
 

Go Back   Muscle and Brawn Forums > General > General Board

Notices

General Board You can talk about anything here. Life, sports, rants, whatever.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 06-12-2013, 01:34 PM   #21
LindenGarcia18
Senior Member
Max Brawn
Points: 8,417, Level: 61 Points: 8,417, Level: 61 Points: 8,417, Level: 61
Activity: 16% Activity: 16% Activity: 16%
 
LindenGarcia18's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: London City UK
Posts: 1,745
Training Type: 5x5
Fav Exercise: One arm dumbbell rows.
Reputation: 64402
LindenGarcia18 is a lifting beastLindenGarcia18 is a lifting beastLindenGarcia18 is a lifting beastLindenGarcia18 is a lifting beastLindenGarcia18 is a lifting beastLindenGarcia18 is a lifting beastLindenGarcia18 is a lifting beastLindenGarcia18 is a lifting beastLindenGarcia18 is a lifting beastLindenGarcia18 is a lifting beastLindenGarcia18 is a lifting beast
Default

Quote:
There are so many incorrect assertions, non sequiturs and logical errors in this post that I literally wouldn't know where to start with it.

Here's one in the very first line:



OK, by quoting Seventy-Seven, and then saying you agree that it's short-sighted to dismiss conspiracy theories, you're making exactly the same straw-man argument he did.

Once again, disbelieving that there is a conspiracy to suppress evidence about aliens does not imply a disbelief in aliens. It's not a difficult distinction.

With regard to research: I became interested in conspiracy theories around 1978 - about 18 years before you were born, and I've been reading about them and other fringe beliefs since then. I would like to think I do have some awareness of the research behind them. My overall view is that the quality of that research is usually incredibly poor. Of course, this varies depending on which fringe belief we're talking about, but generally speaking, they are laughably naive.

I think what lies behind conspiracy theories are two things. Firstly, a basic need to believe in something shadowy and mysterious, that is beyond the world of mortgages and other mundane crap that constitutes adult life. The other is the sense of having a key to a secret knowledge, a truth that other people don't have access to. It must be fun, I guess, to think that other people are sleepwalking through their lives.

I'm sure these feelings don't apply to every conspiracy theorist, but I believe it's part of their general appeal.




You're not crazy, that was a joke. Just mistaken, in my view. I'm not going to read the documents or watch the video, because as interesting as I find this stuff, I have seen it all before and it gets a bit wearing. Conspiracy theorists are at least environmentally-friendly, because they recycle the same crap year after year after year.

Incidentally, you might enjoy Jon Ronson's Them, which describes his time spent with Bilderberg chasers, arch nut-job Alex Jones, and others.



You didn't really listen top what I said.

I'm not a conspiracy theorist, I stick to facts. You can't argue withy facts, and the fact that youv'e just replied to my post telling me how I'm mistaken and that there isn't any substantial evidence to support this stuff shows you didn't listen...

What I posted wasn't a theory. An official government document is about as real as it gets.
This isn't fiction.

You said you haven't read them, well, then really you don't have any place telling me I'm wrong and that youv'e seen it all before.


What I posted is a piece of factual information, and your still passing it off as a conspiracy "theory"

I don't like conspiracy theories. I see no point in guessing when there's no evidence to support the said idea. Thats where you haven't made the distinction.
Your putting my views into a box ,and like I said the majority of people do, painting everyone that challenges the authorities with the same brush.

The way you said youv'e heard it all before shows this.
Like "oh, here we go again, yet another crack pot idea", when thats not the case.

There's the people who rant about satan and how we should fear because the world is going to end, and then there's those who are accused of being the same people, who promote very plausible and factual ideas, backed up with substantial research. They're not all the same.


You'll have way more life experience than me and I respect that, but that link shows you something you can't deny.

Don't look at it if you don't want, but then at the same time don't post back when you haven't looked at what I'm talking about. Don't question my philosophy on the whole situation, of what's "theory", and what isn't, when you haven't really bothered to look.
LindenGarcia18 is online now   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Old 06-12-2013, 01:50 PM   #22
Tannhauser
Senior Member
Max Brawn
Points: 138,239, Level: 100 Points: 138,239, Level: 100 Points: 138,239, Level: 100
Activity: 28% Activity: 28% Activity: 28%
 
Tannhauser's Avatar
 

Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: UK
Posts: 2,923
Training Exp: 30+
Training Type: Powerlifting
Fav Exercise: Front squat
Fav Supp: Creatine. C'est tout.
Reputation: 326815
Tannhauser is an elite memberTannhauser is an elite memberTannhauser is an elite memberTannhauser is an elite memberTannhauser is an elite memberTannhauser is an elite memberTannhauser is an elite memberTannhauser is an elite memberTannhauser is an elite memberTannhauser is an elite memberTannhauser is an elite member
Default

I think that your idea of what constitutes a 'fact' probably varies significantly to what mine is.

I have, in the past, looked into 'facts' about the following: moon landings, 9/11, hollow earth theories, perpetual motion machines, the Illuminati, David Icke, Erik von Daniken, acupuncture and most alternative health practices, the anti-global warming movement, JFK assassination, body language and other pseudosciences, spiritualism and psychic mediumship. Is it worth looking at this new (sic) collection of 'facts', based on past experience? Well, I guess this time, this one time, there could be some astounding new piece of evidence. I could spend spend a couple of hours researching it. But then again...

I can offer an opinion on your views for this reason: although these notions are relatively new to you, I promise you that they have been doing the rounds for many years. They are variations on a theme.
__________________
Lifetime best: 500/363/573 @ 220 belt only

"The proper study of mankind is books" - Aldous Huxley
Tannhauser is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2013, 02:20 PM   #23
LindenGarcia18
Senior Member
Max Brawn
Points: 8,417, Level: 61 Points: 8,417, Level: 61 Points: 8,417, Level: 61
Activity: 16% Activity: 16% Activity: 16%
 
LindenGarcia18's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: London City UK
Posts: 1,745
Training Type: 5x5
Fav Exercise: One arm dumbbell rows.
Reputation: 64402
LindenGarcia18 is a lifting beastLindenGarcia18 is a lifting beastLindenGarcia18 is a lifting beastLindenGarcia18 is a lifting beastLindenGarcia18 is a lifting beastLindenGarcia18 is a lifting beastLindenGarcia18 is a lifting beastLindenGarcia18 is a lifting beastLindenGarcia18 is a lifting beastLindenGarcia18 is a lifting beastLindenGarcia18 is a lifting beast
Default

Quote:
I think that your idea of what constitutes a 'fact' probably varies significantly to what mine is.

I have, in the past, looked into 'facts' about the following: moon landings, 9/11, hollow earth theories, perpetual motion machines, the Illuminati, David Icke, Erik von Daniken, acupuncture and most alternative health practices, the anti-global warming movement, JFK assassination, body language and other pseudosciences, spiritualism and psychic mediumship. Is it worth looking at this new (sic) collection of 'facts', based on past experience? Well, I guess this time, this one time, there could be some astounding new piece of evidence. I could spend spend a couple of hours researching it. But then again...
The thing I was getting at was the fact that when you have something like the northwood papers at your disposal, a plan created by the US government to bomb themselves in an attempt to start the war, its undeniable.

The theory part comes in when you start to talk about how they could have assassinated JFK afterwards for denying this, which of coarse I have no proof on, but again, even though the JFK assassination would still be seen as a conspiracy theory, there's the physical impossibilities of the timing in which Oswald supposedly fired the shots, seen as the rifle couldn't reload that fast, the fact that when Jessie Ventura, a navy seal and expert marksman tried to reenact it, he failed on every attempt, and his target was stood still.

I'm not suggesting any of these theories to be fact, because ultimately, we don't know.
However.
When there are physical impossibilities within the official stories that don't add up, questions have to be asked.

And thats no theory, no idea, just facts. Things that are impossible, out of place.

So with that said, I can't understand how people can categorically say, "thats bull"

Facts don't lie right?


I don't like to belive in conspiracy theories, however, when solid facts come into the equation, you can do nothing but question the offitial story.

When its been proved that they're lying, time and time again with this stuff, how can we believe anything they say?

Quote:
I can offer an opinion on your views for this reason: although these notions are relatively new to you, I promise you that they have been doing the rounds for many years. They are variations on a theme.
I understand that, but I only see this hold true with conspiracy theories, not where there's physical proof involved.



Watch that if you like, its only 2 and a half minuets long. (Excuse the robotic voice, its been re uploaded by someone else, but it demonstrates what I'm trying to say)

About a 6 inch alien body thats been found.

Dr Steven Greer is researching it at the moment, and their studies have proved that its DNA doesn't match with anything they've seen before.

He isn't a conspiracy theorist, just a very intelligent man trying to prove something amazing. All his work is based on facts. Thats how he works.

Last edited by LindenGarcia18; 06-12-2013 at 02:28 PM.
LindenGarcia18 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2013, 02:53 PM   #24
Tannhauser
Senior Member
Max Brawn
Points: 138,239, Level: 100 Points: 138,239, Level: 100 Points: 138,239, Level: 100
Activity: 28% Activity: 28% Activity: 28%
 
Tannhauser's Avatar
 

Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: UK
Posts: 2,923
Training Exp: 30+
Training Type: Powerlifting
Fav Exercise: Front squat
Fav Supp: Creatine. C'est tout.
Reputation: 326815
Tannhauser is an elite memberTannhauser is an elite memberTannhauser is an elite memberTannhauser is an elite memberTannhauser is an elite memberTannhauser is an elite memberTannhauser is an elite memberTannhauser is an elite memberTannhauser is an elite memberTannhauser is an elite memberTannhauser is an elite member
Default

EDIT TO ADD; AS YOU TYPE A LOT FASTER THAN I DO, BY THE TIME I'D CONSTRUCTED THIS POST, YOU'D POSTED YOURS, IN WHICH YOU ADDRESS SOME OF MINE BELOW.

Incidentally, there is an idea that could be considered 'conspiracy' that I do subscribe to. It's the idea of disaster capitalism and the influence of the Chicago school of business, as set out by Naomi Klein in her book The Shock Doctrine. Now that really is extraordinarily well-researched.

So, against my better judgement, I've just looked at the docs, read about 'Operation Northwood' and watched the vid until it crashed. So, put me right on this if I've got it wrong: the assertion is that (1) JFK was killed for going soft on Cuba and opposition to covert operations and (2) 9/11 was the execution of a long-concealed plan. Right?

Let's go with the JFK thing a second.

Sigh.

1) Military organisations engage in all sorts of speculative plans. Read Jeremy Paxman's book on chemical and biological warfare. One idea was to inject Hitler's food with oestrogens so that he would become more feminine and hence look ridiculous. Seriously. But there's a difference between proposing a plan and getting it accepted.

2) Correlation and causation error. What you have are two observations:

A: JFK opposed secret dealings, including Operation Northwoods
B: Kennedy was assassinated.

The assertion is that A caused B. But hang on. Kennedy also opposed the Federal Reserve, halting sales of their silver reserves. Maybe they offed him! Incredibly, there's another conspiracy theory that says just that. Or maybe it was the mafia, because the FACTS show they were involved in his election.

You say you deal only in facts, but as suspected, these are disparate facts connected only with speculation and absolutely no evidence.

If you say it can't be just coincidence, I'm calling the police.

For some reason, loads of people find it hard to believe that ultra-famous people die for the same reasons that every one does. Marilyn was assassinated, Hitler didn't die in a bunker, Diana's car crash was engineered. And JFK couldn't possibly have been assassinated by a lone nut-job. Because he was too famous to die that way, the cause wasn't grandiose enough.

The video was even worse than expected. It simply juxtaposes a bunch of stuff with no attempt at a coherent argument.

Can I have that hour of my life back please?
__________________
Lifetime best: 500/363/573 @ 220 belt only

"The proper study of mankind is books" - Aldous Huxley

Last edited by Tannhauser; 06-12-2013 at 02:56 PM.
Tannhauser is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2013, 03:12 PM   #25
Tannhauser
Senior Member
Max Brawn
Points: 138,239, Level: 100 Points: 138,239, Level: 100 Points: 138,239, Level: 100
Activity: 28% Activity: 28% Activity: 28%
 
Tannhauser's Avatar
 

Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: UK
Posts: 2,923
Training Exp: 30+
Training Type: Powerlifting
Fav Exercise: Front squat
Fav Supp: Creatine. C'est tout.
Reputation: 326815
Tannhauser is an elite memberTannhauser is an elite memberTannhauser is an elite memberTannhauser is an elite memberTannhauser is an elite memberTannhauser is an elite memberTannhauser is an elite memberTannhauser is an elite memberTannhauser is an elite memberTannhauser is an elite memberTannhauser is an elite member
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by LindenGarcia18 View Post
there's the physical impossibilities of the timing in which Oswald supposedly fired the shots, seen as the rifle couldn't reload that fast, the fact that when Jessie Ventura, a navy seal and expert marksman tried to reenact it, he failed on every attempt, and his target was stood still
Here's the basic problem: you readily accept stuff like this as evidence without considering or researching a counter-argument. Every single aspect of the JFK assassination has been challenged. There are at least 68 people who have confessed to JFK's assassination or been accused of it. You could do worse than look at Dave Perry's website on JFK:

Dave Perry's JFK Assassination Pages
__________________
Lifetime best: 500/363/573 @ 220 belt only

"The proper study of mankind is books" - Aldous Huxley
Tannhauser is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2013, 03:18 PM   #26
5kgLifter
Kettlebells' Angel !!!!
Max Brawn
Points: 23,645, Level: 94 Points: 23,645, Level: 94 Points: 23,645, Level: 94
Activity: 11% Activity: 11% Activity: 11%
 
5kgLifter's Avatar
Default

I saw an alien once (it was nothing from this Earth), I don't need any government to tell me they either exist or don't exist...neither do I normally discuss it with anyone because there's little point in doing so nor am I a Ufologist (or whatever it is they call themselves).
__________________
36.5 kg /80.3 lb Middle-Finger DL (right hand)...
5kgLifter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2013, 03:28 PM   #27
syn
Senior Member
Max Brawn
Points: 3,936, Level: 39 Points: 3,936, Level: 39 Points: 3,936, Level: 39
Activity: 11% Activity: 11% Activity: 11%
 
syn's Avatar
 

Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Dublin
Posts: 770
Training Exp: not enough
Training Type: Fullbody
Fav Exercise: deadlift
Fav Supp: coffee
Reputation: 49123
syn is a lifting machinesyn is a lifting machinesyn is a lifting machinesyn is a lifting machinesyn is a lifting machinesyn is a lifting machinesyn is a lifting machinesyn is a lifting machinesyn is a lifting machinesyn is a lifting machinesyn is a lifting machine
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 5kgLifter View Post
I saw an alien once (it was nothing from this Earth), I don't need any government to tell me they either exist or don't exist...neither do I normally discuss it with anyone because there's little point in doing so nor am I a Ufologist (or whatever it is they call themselves).
damm, you cant **** tease like that!

if you want tell us about it - I would really interested to hear, and I wont even ask questions? just want to hear your story
syn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2013, 03:30 PM   #28
5kgLifter
Kettlebells' Angel !!!!
Max Brawn
Points: 23,645, Level: 94 Points: 23,645, Level: 94 Points: 23,645, Level: 94
Activity: 11% Activity: 11% Activity: 11%
 
5kgLifter's Avatar
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by syn View Post
damm, you cant **** tease like that!

if you want tell us about it - I would really interested to hear, and I wont even ask questions? just want to hear your story
No, I really don't discuss it, sorry.
__________________
36.5 kg /80.3 lb Middle-Finger DL (right hand)...
5kgLifter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2013, 03:32 PM   #29
syn
Senior Member
Max Brawn
Points: 3,936, Level: 39 Points: 3,936, Level: 39 Points: 3,936, Level: 39
Activity: 11% Activity: 11% Activity: 11%
 
syn's Avatar
 

Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Dublin
Posts: 770
Training Exp: not enough
Training Type: Fullbody
Fav Exercise: deadlift
Fav Supp: coffee
Reputation: 49123
syn is a lifting machinesyn is a lifting machinesyn is a lifting machinesyn is a lifting machinesyn is a lifting machinesyn is a lifting machinesyn is a lifting machinesyn is a lifting machinesyn is a lifting machinesyn is a lifting machinesyn is a lifting machine
Default

ok that's cool.
syn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2013, 03:35 PM   #30
Tannhauser
Senior Member
Max Brawn
Points: 138,239, Level: 100 Points: 138,239, Level: 100 Points: 138,239, Level: 100
Activity: 28% Activity: 28% Activity: 28%
 
Tannhauser's Avatar
 

Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: UK
Posts: 2,923
Training Exp: 30+
Training Type: Powerlifting
Fav Exercise: Front squat
Fav Supp: Creatine. C'est tout.
Reputation: 326815
Tannhauser is an elite memberTannhauser is an elite memberTannhauser is an elite memberTannhauser is an elite memberTannhauser is an elite memberTannhauser is an elite memberTannhauser is an elite memberTannhauser is an elite memberTannhauser is an elite memberTannhauser is an elite memberTannhauser is an elite member
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by LindenGarcia18 View Post

I understand that, but I only see this hold true with conspiracy theories, not where there's physical proof involved.


Dr. Steven Greer Reveals The Findings Of Little Alien Baby - YouTube


Dr Steven Greer is researching it at the moment, and their studies have proved that its DNA doesn't match with anything they've seen before.

He isn't a conspiracy theorist, just a very intelligent man trying to prove something amazing. All his work is based on facts. Thats how he works.
Again, there are so many of these weird little hoaxes, going all the way back to Piltdown Man. Previous generations were taken in by fake mermaids, now it's aliens. Each generation has its Steven Greer, very intelligent men who dealt only in facts. Apparently. By the way, he was the producer of the program from which the extract was taken. Every year there's a new alien.

Pity Steven Greer didn't reveal the DNA findings of the expert he employed:

Quote:
Nolan said that it was clear that the specimen was human after the genome analysis, though the researchers could still not explain the skeletonís unusual characteristics.
Note that he doesn't think the unusual characteristics are alien. It's definitely human DNA.

See here: The full story
__________________
Lifetime best: 500/363/573 @ 220 belt only

"The proper study of mankind is books" - Aldous Huxley
Tannhauser is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Citizen Hearing on UFO Disclosure April 2th, 2013 to May 3rd, 2013 BigJosh General Board 9 05-13-2013 10:24 AM
Alien Fans => Baby Toy BendtheBar General Board 1 07-04-2012 11:14 AM
Choose sides. Alien or Predator? glwanabe General Board 10 07-13-2010 08:35 PM

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:58 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.