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Old 04-18-2013, 09:19 AM   #11
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What I see is a belligerant jackass giving an officer of the law a hard time. Legal gun owner or not, you have to respect the badge. This guy was clearly looking for trouble.
Jackasses like this piss me off. He makes legal gun holders look like loons. Any one with a firearm and/or CCW should know that it is there responsibility to cooperate with law enforcement officals.
(As per California state law, as I am not familiar with other states)Carrying that weapon is a liability. You are no longer held to the same set of rules. You cannot for example, drink alcohol while carrying that weapon. You cannot instigate situations and must walk away from potential altercations. Carrying that firearm does not give you a license to be a crime fighter or hero or on equal turf with law enforcement.
I digress, if this tool would have shut up and cooperated he would have probably been on his way in 5 minutes. He is exactly the type of individual that shouldn't be armed.

And to put my statement context I have a safe full of guns and strongly. believe in the right to carry.
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Old 04-18-2013, 09:50 AM   #12
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Commentary from the video for anyone interested.

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On March 16, 2013, my son and I were hiking along country roads among pastures and fields with my 15-year old son to help him earn his hiking merit badge. I always enjoy these father/son hikes because it gives me time alone with my son. As I always do when we go on these hikes and walks, I took my trusty rifle with me as there are coyotes, wild hogs, and cougars in our area. In Texas, it is legal to openly carry a rifle or shotgun as long as you do so in a manner that isn't calculated to cause alarm. In other words, you can't walk around waving your rifle at people. I always carry my rifle slung across my chest dangling, not holding it in my hands.

At about the 5 mile mark of our hike, a voice behind us asked us to stop and the officer motioned for us to approach him. He got out of his car and met us a few feet later. He asked us what we were doing and I explained that we were hiking for my son's merit badge. He then asked me what I'm doing with the rifle, to which I responded in a calm manner, "Does it matter, officer? Am I breaking the law?"

At that point, the officer grabbed my rifle without warning or indication. He didn't ask for my rifle and he didn't suggest he would take it from me. He simply grabbed it. This startled me and I instantly pulled back - the rifle was attached to me - and I asked what he thought he was doing because he's not taking my rifle. He then pulled his service pistol on me and told me to take my hands off the weapon and move to his car, which I complied with. He then slammed me into the hood of his car and I remembered I had a camera on me (one of the requirements of the hiking merit badge is to document your hikes). This video is the rest of that encounter. Up to this point, I am not told why I am being stopped, why he tried to disarm me, or even that I'm under arrest.

We did not set out that Saturday morning to "make a point" or cause problems. Our goal was to complete a 10-mile hike and return home without incident. My son chose a route that away from populated areas but near our home.

The arresting officer is Officer Steve Ermis and the supervisor is Sergeant Minnicks of the Temple Police Department.

If you agree this was a gross act of exceeded authority, please help me fight these charges: 2nd Amendment Legal Defense Fund | Indiegogo
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Old 04-18-2013, 09:57 AM   #13
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Quote:
I took my trusty rifle with me as there are coyotes, wild hogs, and cougars in our area. In Texas, it is legal to openly carry a rifle or shotgun as long as you do so in a manner that isn't calculated to cause alarm. In other words, you can't walk around waving your rifle at people. I always carry my rifle slung across my chest dangling, not holding it in my hands.

At about the 5 mile mark of our hike, a voice behind us asked us to stop and the officer motioned for us to approach him. He got out of his car and met us a few feet later. He asked us what we were doing and I explained that we were hiking for my son's merit badge. He then asked me what I'm doing with the rifle, to which I responded in a calm manner, "Does it matter, officer? Am I breaking the law?"


When asked, why didn't he just say what his purpose for carrying it was? It's stated plainly enough above, so I don't follow his reasoning for questioning a question, especially when a simple answer would have sufficed, then he'd have more backing for any grabbing of the rifle, IMO.
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Old 04-18-2013, 09:59 AM   #14
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I am a CWP holder and a firearms owner. I do agree that this nation has lost most of its common sense and reason. I also agree that when you are stopped by an LEO the best thing you can do is cooperate. If there is a "rights issue" that needs to be worked out within the courts. It is a pain in the ass but it is what it is.

You do not argue a case on the street. At least wait until you are at the station.

LEO's SHOULD not be quick to harass people or go on a power trip..... but people should also try to remember some of the crap that LEO's deal with on a daily basis and act accordingly.

Having the right to carry a fire arm does not / should not involve a permit. ( That pesky 2nd amendment thing) BUT the possession of a CWP / CCW does obligate the individual to a more stringent set of rules.

In my state you must identify yourself as a CWP /CCW holder to all LEO's if they stop you for anything. ( such as a traffic stop)
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Old 04-18-2013, 10:01 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigJosh View Post
This guy was clearly looking for trouble. .
Huge assumption. He was walking in a very rural area.
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Old 04-18-2013, 10:34 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BendtheBar View Post
Huge assumption. He was walking in a very rural area.
I assumed nothing. Please don't quote one sentence out of my post and take it out of context.
When asked by the officer what he was doing with the rifle he responded ""Does it matter, officer?". The video starts and he is not obeying the officers requests. He was not cooperating, he was looking for trouble when the officer approached him.
Had he not been looking for trouble with the officer he would have simply answered the officers questions.
I said nothing about what he was doing before he was approached by the officer. Futhermore, I said nothing regarding the legality of walking around a rural area with a rifle. Please don't imply that i did.
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Old 04-18-2013, 11:17 AM   #17
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Exclamation

My analogy of Cars to Guns was questioned.

I have a problem with brevity...

Let me try to put forth my position as Follows:

The Anti-Gun Position is Implicitly Argued as Follows:

{And anyone who thinks that I'm setting up a Strawman, please let me know how I could be fairer to the Hoplophobes...}

Major Premise:

Safety and Security are more important than a Free Man's Abstract Right to Bear Arms...

So if it can be shown that Guns create more Net Problems than they Solve, the Right to Arms is not Absolute.

Minor Premise:

At this point in time, more restrictive regulation of Arms would result in Greater Safety.

Conclusion:

More regulation is Desirable.

Some even say that complete banning would be the best course of action.

Pragmatic Dithering:

While we are not capable of banning all Arms, "We" (the Hoplophobes) should make some compromises—both in the interest of "Doing what's Possible" and some even want to level the playing field somewhat between Armed Hooligans and Citizens.

I grow very tired of people who say that they're "Pro-Gun" and debate the Accuracy and Truthfulness of the Minor Premise ad nauseum.

I believe that the Minor Premise is Patently False, but it is also a Red Herring.

I categorically reject the Major Premise.

If the Major Premise is False, then the Conclusion is Invalid. The Minor Premise is Irrelevant and the Pragmatic Shilly-Shallying is flapping in the breeze even harder than it otherwise would.

Man is born a mewling, rather disgusting and incomplete sort of thing.

We have no Fur or Feathers to protect us from sun and cold.

Our teeth really aren't up to grinding enough food for us.

We have No Natural Weapons.

But God, in his infinite wisdom gave us something even better—a Brain.

Man makes clothing to cover his nakedness. Actually, clothing is far more versatile and allows greater cleanliness than Fur or Feathers.

He builds a fire to warm him, cook his food to make it more digestible and to scare away predators.

Later he builds grinders and mills to make bread—and spare his teeth even more.

Right from the very beginning, man fashioned Weapons. This came about so early in our history, that it is an essential part of who and what we are.

The Stone Age man armed with a good stout Flint-Tipped Spear was a match for any Cave Bear or Saber-Tooth Cat that he might meet.

Think not?

Elemental game theory:

Bear eats man unscathed: −1

Man Walks away unscathed; Bear Dead: +1

Man Rams Spear deep into Bear. Man Dies. Bear dies within a few days from his wounds: 0

Yeehaw!

Cave Man can generally Force At Least a Draw...

And Cave Men travelled in Gangs.

Thing is:

Weapons improve. A man with a Flint Spear is a wee bit disadvantaged against an archer with longbow and broadheads.

The Samurai truthfully said:

"The Sword is The Soul of The Samurai."

They meant that the Katana and Wakizashi were essential parts of The Samurai. Take them away, and he was no longer Samurai.

{Note: Except as some sort of Temporary Expedient to regain a pair of Swords, a Flint Spear was worthless so far as being a Samurai.}

Today the "Soul" of the Modern Day Samurai is the 1911A1 or other Suitable Big-Bore Pistol.

It is a part of him and when he must be separated from it even momentarily, he suffers all kinds of Psychic Trauma.

Imagine that for some reason men evolved (no, I don't believe in Evolution—go with me a moment...)

Man evolved into a legless being.

Advanced Prosthesis were available, but why do you need to be nimble and fast—unless you want to snatch purses, climb ladders to burgle or fight or run from the Laws?

After all, everywhere you might reasonably want to go, is handicap accessible...

For the few who want to go Rocky Mountain Sheep Hunting or to Climb Mt Everest or something...

Well, you can get a pair of legs—if your record is spotless and you pass all the Psyche tests...

But don't think that you can walk around on your legs in town!

Now how do you feel, dragging yourself through the gutters and slug tracks...

Broken and incomplete—solely through Government Fiat...

And what kind of Rage do you feel when you see a "Civil Master" walk blithely past you...

Condescending because he is allowed Legs and You Are Not?

That is the issue.

A Gun is of far more personal and moral import than a car or a house or anything else.

The Primary purpose of Any State is to Secure the Right of Free Men to go Armed.

When a Government Fails this task, it is completely useless.


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Old 04-18-2013, 11:44 AM   #18
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I agree its jackasses like this that make legal gun owners look bad.

Shit in Michigan people will just unload their .40 into the back of your car if you cut them off on the road.

I'm a big hunter and I have many guns used for hunting. I do not want any gun that I have to register. All my long guns were purchased at a time when putting your name on a list was not a requirement.

That poor bastard with his .40 shooting at cars wouldn't get within 300 yards of me carrying my 30-06, thats for sure.
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Old 04-18-2013, 12:13 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by SaxonViolence View Post

(no, I don't believe in Evolution—go with me a moment...)
Quoted for mischevious pleasure.
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Old 04-18-2013, 12:15 PM   #20
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Crazy, a lawsuit will be on the way I am sure.
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