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Old 01-21-2010, 04:28 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by BendtheBar View Post
I just watched a video of a natty acquaintance of mine, Vic Costa. He does primarily isolation exercises, with slow, controlled movements - and the guy looks freaking amazing.

I, for the life of me, can't understand how he gained on that program. I'm not putting down his training style, but there is no way I could gain using it. I wonder he he trained like that when he was young.

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i was unaware standing stirct 20 lb curls was a "power movement"

yeah this guy looks good, but my small little ass would be laughing like crazy if i saw him in my gym
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Old 01-21-2010, 09:32 PM   #32
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But does it maintain muscle mass?
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Old 01-21-2010, 09:38 PM   #33
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But does it maintain muscle mass?
this is something i was thinking about earlier.

i was thinking sometime, in a few years, i may go one winter on a BB routine when im pretty strong.

then after that would the size be maintained with just strength training?
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Old 01-21-2010, 10:27 PM   #34
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I think Strength training can build muscle, But having muscle doesn't always mean strength. Look at Bruce Lee. He was 140lbs. The heaviest he ever weighed was 165lbs, but he thought it slowed him down. When he reduced his weight back 140lbs, I don't think he was any strong or weaker because of it.

Just my thought on tne subject.
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Old 01-21-2010, 10:57 PM   #35
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I think Strength training can build muscle, But having muscle doesn't always mean strength. Look at Bruce Lee. He was 140lbs. The heaviest he ever weighed was 165lbs, but he thought it slowed him down. When he reduced his weight back 140lbs, I don't think he was any strong or weaker because of it.

Just my thought on tne subject.
that man was a beast no matter how you look at it
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Old 01-21-2010, 11:41 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by jhuse2 View Post
I think Strength training can build muscle, But having muscle doesn't always mean strength. Look at Bruce Lee. He was 140lbs. The heaviest he ever weighed was 165lbs, but he thought it slowed him down. When he reduced his weight back 140lbs, I don't think he was any strong or weaker because of it.

Just my thought on tne subject.
Strength has multiple components, and muscle mass is definitely one of them, although not necessarily THE major component. Factors such as CNS activation while lifting as well as strength of tendons and joints play a crucial role as well.

Muscle can be built. CNS can be trained. These two can be developed by just about everyone with adequate dedication to a great extent. But there isnt a whole lot to increase joint circumferences (which in turn correlates with how much muscle you can build). I guess that's one reason why you will be hard pressed to find elite lifters (powerlifting or olympic lifting or strongman) with small joints.

I think I will agree with what grim mentioned. The total workload matters a lot more for developing muscle mass.

Rather simplistically,

Consider a case where one benches
155 x 10 x 3 = 4650 lbs a session

And another case where one benches
175 x 3 x 10 = 5250 lbs

And yet another case where one benches
185 x 2 x 13 = 4810 lbs

All other things being constant, the third case will be better for strength, the second would be better for muscle mass. If the first case had 4 sets instead of 3, the total workload with 155 lbs would have been higher than the other two, and it might result in more muscle growth.

As I mentioned, this was rather simplistic, there are other factors coming into play as well, but the total workload should still be a pretty good indicator for the same person under the same conditions.
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Old 01-22-2010, 12:34 AM   #37
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I think people should quit worrying about the reps per set, and pay more attention to total volume. I had a guy message me the other day over at bb.com wanting to know if it would be better to change to 3x8 on my beginner routine, i told him flat out all it will do is be a few extra reps with a lower percentage of his 1rm, nothing magical would happen though. People get so caught up in how many reps they are doing, but there is nothing magical about 5reps versus 10, you should be worrying about your total volume in relation to the intensity (I define intensity as % of 1rm not a perceived amount of effort).
But grim if you work up to a 5rep maximum compared to a 10 rep maximum, it can make a big difference. I agree someone should focus more on intensity, but you will get better gains in terms of strength doing less reps.You can deadlift 455 for 10 reps but you might not be able to rep out 495 for 5,and I seen this among the typical gym rat. But that becomes an issue of muscular endurance.

I agree in the sense people focus way to much on reps, but when comparing strength training to bro science, strength training is around 1-3 reps stretched out to 5-7 but anything more in a rep range is not going to make a person stronger then the latter of lower reps, granted the weight is higher. All powerlifters swear by triples doubles and singles, same with olympic lifters.But once again it depends on what goals your talking about.
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Old 01-22-2010, 12:44 AM   #38
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But grim if you work up to a 5rep maximum compared to a 10 rep maximum, it can make a big difference. I agree someone should focus more on intensity, but you will get better gains in terms of strength doing less reps.You can deadlift 455 for 10 reps but you might not be able to rep out 495 for 5,and I seen this among the typical gym rat. But that becomes an issue of muscular endurance.

I agree in the sense people focus way to much on reps, but when comparing strength training to bro science, strength training is around 1-3 reps stretched out to 5-7 but anything more in a rep range is not going to make a person stronger then the latter of lower reps, granted the weight is higher. All powerlifters swear by triples doubles and singles, same with olympic lifters.But once again it depends on what goals your talking about.
Agreed its the goals that matter, but its more complicated that how many reps per set or whatever. You can build a good bit of muscular endurance on triples assuming you program it right, hell i could design one that gives you some work on the endurance part using singles, and that either one would allow you to go a bit heavier than the average putts doing 25reps with the pink dumbbells for "endurance". I mean there are so many variables to play with, you have over all volume, density, speed of sets, rep cadences (god now i hate myself), etc...
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Old 01-22-2010, 05:45 AM   #39
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Old 01-22-2010, 12:53 PM   #40
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to see all this high rep for size bs is crazy the strongest men in the world do not train in high rep, low weight, and these are some of the largest men in the world. if you do that and it works great for you then fine but i'm train for strength and if size comes with it(which it is) then i'll take it.
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